Common information is included at the end of this section
It is also STRONGLY suggested that you read the Fuel section
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Engines |
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Common Information:
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Black Smoke is caused by partly burned fuel, a dirty air filter, blocked intercooler, low compression, failed or failing turbo, failing injector pump, or incorrect timing. Black smoke, sooting, on the 450C can be reduced dramatically by changing to 5 hole, 480C injectors. B series owners, as of this time, 8/04 there is no replacement for the original injectors in your engines.
White Smoke is usually the wrong grade fuel, misfiring cylinders, clogged injectors, or simply a normal start up during which the engine is cold and is normal in many engines during the "break in" period of up to 300 hours.
Blue Smoke tends to be lube oil being burned during combustion. Very similar to those "Old Cars" that we see sometimes on the highways. The Blue Smoke can be caused by broken or missing valve seals, worn piston wipers, piston rings, or scored cylinders. Also blue smoke or excessive oil consumption can be caused by a blocked intercooler which will restrict the amount of air entering the engine. When this happens it is not unusual for the engine to suck engine oil down the valve stem and into the combustion chamber. The result is blue smoke and disappearing engine oil. Your intercooler needs to be removed and cleaned between 500 and 100 hours of operation. Click here for a look at a blocked intercooler.
Cummins Marine, A Division of Brunswick Corporation.
Have a question you can't get answered locally, or if you are having a problem with local Cummins service?
Call Cummins Marine in Charleston, SC.
Since Brunswick Corp has purchased Cummins Marine in 2002, there have been quite a few changes in how thing are done. So be prep aired to communicate to three letter people without names when sending E-mails.
Maxum Owners with Cummins Engines READ THIS PLEASE!
Cummins Owners: Just a note to let you know that my idea about putting vacuum gauges on the engine between the engines lift pump and the engine mounted fuel filter was a bad one. I lost the port vacuum gauge first after 9+ hours. The Starboard went after 18+ hours. We only lost one gallon of fuel into the engine hold each time, both spills were contained 100%. I suspect what happened was that when backing down, the Boshe Fuel pump offloads and sends pressure back into the incoming fuel line. This destroys the bellows inside of the gauge and the fuel pours out.
From reading literature from Flowscan, they recommend "Fuel pulsation dampers be installed in some installations" I have a feeling this is one of them.
So, don't do what I did. It sounded good but just didn't work. But, if I would have installed shut off valves..... Maybe next year.
Black Smoke? Its normal to a degree, here some of the mechanical reasons for it. Your Engines need to break in, this happens at about 250 to 300 hours of operation. As it was explained to me, your Engines rings are made with a 50" radius on the contact side to the cylinder wall. That is to say, if you take a string 50" long and draw a circle, the radius of the circle is the same as the radius Cummins puts into the Pistons Ring. This is done to allow the Engine to "Break In". As perfect as a part is made, it must seat, it must find it's perfect fit with other parts around it. When this radius is flattened to the Engines cylinder wall it will be broken in. There are other parts that also must "break in", but were talking Black Smoke here, and this is the main mechanical reason for it. There are other reasons for excessive Black Smoke, read about them in the Fuel section. 3/2001 James
Engine Cooling
450C Cummins Engines, Coolant Additives
Ref: Cummins Bulletin # 3381834-00 Pages V-3 and V-4
"Your coolant should be changed every 300 hours or 12 months which ever comes first. Check the coolant additive concentration regularly. Check cooling systems using DCA4 only with DCA4 Coolant Test Kit, Fleetguard Part No. CC2602." About fifty bucks. Note while Cummins recommends "checking" the concentration of coolant additive regularly, it specifically says the following.
"NOTE: The practice of using a test kit to determine when to add or change the coolant filter is specifically not recommended. Coolant filter must be changed when the coolant is changed at the intervals specified in the maintenance schedule."
Coolant Additive Concentration (From page 6-9 of the above referenced manual)
Checking (C Series Only)
But, I highly recommend testing the coolant to insure the SCA additive is at the correct dose, the test kit costs about $50.00 for 50 test strips. Improper levels of additive can cause the wet cylinder liners to pit. This pitting can lead to pin holes leading to water in the lube oil and water in the combustion chamber, leading to major mechanical problems, and the loss of the kingdom all for the cost of a test kit.
Now for a Cummins Long Haul Truckers Engine story: Once upon a time there was this Trucker with a new C series engine, since he did coast to coast runs and his oil change interval was quite frequent, every 3 weeks. And being the diligent owner of a new rig, he changed ALL the filters when changing the oil. His rigs engine did not make it to be a year old. By replacing the coolant filter every time he replaced the oil filter, he increased the coolant additive amount in the coolant system. The coolant additive formed a "gel" which caused restrictions, and plugged passages inside the engine block which in turn caused overheating, leading to a destroyed engine. Which was, everybody together, (Not covered under warranty.)
When communicating with "One" of the representative of Cummins Marine at the Miami Boat show, I was told of Cummins Owners who have experienced problems with the use of Antifreeze Coolants that were not compatible with the internal gaskets their Cummins engines. The results are extremely expensive and since this particular Antifreeze Coolant was not an approved Cummins product that caused the problem, it is not Cummins who will pick up the repair costs. I have called Cummins to confirm this. The antifreeze has been removed from the market, it actually ate the seals. The new product has be re-formulated and is now approved by Cummins, read the label and use only the products and grades approved by Cummins. 4/02
Cummins: Jim, I haven't forgotten about you. I'm still working on the antifreeze question. I found a document that was published in July of 1999 addressing "extended life coolants." Basically, the memo states that coolants with an organic acid should not be used in Cummins Engines, because the organic acid causes degradation of the silicone seals in the engines after 80,000 to 100,000 miles. The document does mention a couple of brand names, but I want to make sure that this information was correct and not superseded, before releasing. Regards, George, Cummins Marine South Carolina.
Caution: Inadequate concentration of the coolant additive can result in major corrosive damage to engine components. Over concentration can cause formation of "gel" that can cause restriction, plugging of passages, and overheating.
NOTE: When the engine coolant is changed, the coolant filter must also be changed.
I've been asked, "How do you equate Truck (Over the Road) Miles to Marine operating hours on a similar engine?" This is a tricky question, with many variables, and Cummins marine diesel engines are built tougher than Cummins diesel truck engines, but if we are only looking at oil changes, you might use 250 operating hours @ 50 mph highway would equal 12,500 highway miles. I hope we would all change oil at or before this interval.
A quick no tools test of your 450C's operation
If you own a 450C and think something may be wrong with the engine, here's a quick test to determine the engines performance. Start and warm up the engine @ 1200 rpm or so, check for water flow at the exhaust, as the temperature comes up to normal, push the throttle slowly to their stops, your tach should read 3000 RPM. Bring the engine RPM slowly down and shut them down, you're done. The technical tops out @ 2600 RPM under load, BUT at no load its rated to go to 3000 RPM. If it makes 3000 RPM no load, your engine is most likely OK.
Most service calls where the boat won't go to full speed, or normal RPM, are the result of a dirty bottom, or running gear. This simple test will point you in the right direction to locate the problem.
More From Cummins: The Cummins B&C Series Marine Engines Installation Directions booklet is an excellent technical guide. For a copy, call (800) 343-7357 option (2). Ask for bulletin 3884649-01.
Why do the C series engine require a coolant filter while the B series engine needs none?
The answer is that the C series engines used Cast Iron engine liners, (cylinder wall sleeves), the B series engines have bored blocks. The C series engines can be fully rebuilt in place by replacing the sleeves. The B series engine must be removed and sent out for the boring of the cylinder walls.
More From Cummins: Oil filter - The Oil filter in the 450C Cummins Diesel incorporates a full flow and a fine filtration section. You can check the date of manufacture of the engine to determine which of two part numbers you need for your engines. The LF3000 is for engines produced before November 1999. The LF9009 is for engines produced thereafter. The LF9009 will work in all applications and does a better job at cleaning as a higher percentage of oil goes through the bypass section, but it is more expensive.
5/2001 James
Engine Cooling, Tom Lambert, says: I own a Maxum 4100 SCR The engines, which are Cummins 330's, have always had a running temperature of approximately 195-200 degrees. I just attended Cummins owners school and they tell me that this is to hot. I have had mechanics on the boat say that it may be the exhaust system. I was wonder if you new what or could put it on your web page what others who own my style boat run at. Later Tom says, I was able to reduce the running temperature to a constant 189-192 by changing the intakes to the new larger wedge type with forward looking angled holes. This also eliminated barnacles from getting up inside the intakes. Thank you for the follow up. lsei@gate.net 2/2001
Engine Cooling, Exhaust Risers, Possible 4100 SCA problem. We advise and inform the Maxum Family, of Maxum Owners, Maxum Dealers and Maxum / US Marine when we have received information from either impeccable or multiple sources that a potentially serious condition may exist on their boats. I believe this is the MOST important thing that we do. If what is discussed is unique to a single boat, so be it. The Fleet needs to be aware of and to pay particular attention to this item. If it is indicative of a problem common to the fleet we all need to know. The only way to do this is openly. To that end, our thanks to Robert Cephas, robertcephas@snip.net one of our 4100 SCA owners, I request our 4100 SCA owners, our Dealers and our service managers to contact him directly to fully understand what he has found regarding the exhaust tube failure in his 4100 SCA. robertcephas@snip.net (302) 368-1467---home
Back to Cummins
The C series Intercooler Turbo:
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Turbos are very reliable in the Cummins engine, unless run at top speed for extended periods of time, running at top speed will shorten the life of the turbo considerably, and when they die they get tossed away, they are rarely able to be economically rebuilt, there is no returned core on this part from Cummins. It's new or nothing, and for a new C series intercooler turbo you will be shelling out $ 1,500.00 as a customer. Turbos wear down, their internal clearances increase and their efficiency is reduced. Broken turbo blades and ceased bearings don't help either. (The aftercooler turbo is a touch over $2,000.00)
This information applies to all of us. The exhaust tube in Roberts 4100 SCA is rated for 250 degrees operations. There are many possible causes of the failure of the tube, one the tube was improperly made and/or improperly cured, (it is fiberglass). Possible, but not the most likely. Another is that the exhaust riser and exhaust configuration may be the culprit, this is more likely to hold the answer. An explanation here is required to get you up to speed. Engines are sold to Maxum without exhaust risers. The boat builder can choose to make them dry exhausts, like a car. Or wet exhausts by adding water to the exhaust gas. Maxum makes wet exhausts, and therefore must add an exhaust riser to the engine, in Roberts case on his Cummins Diesels just after the turbo. The Cummins Diesel produces test cell exhaust gasses temperatures of 898 degrees f for the 370B and 830 degrees f for the 450C, (source Cummins Marine SC.) The purpose of the riser is to spray engine cooling water through a "spray head" pattern of holes inside of the riser to cool the engines exhaust gasses. This spray pattern "ideally" blasts a perfect spray pattern of water hitting all of the exhaust gas, thus lowering the temperature of the exhaust gas under the 250 degree rating of the exhaust elbows and exhaust tube. Exhaust risers are a maintenance item, and they only last so long because of their extreme exposure to corrosive raw water and extreme temperatures. This riser is only a few years old and has under 200 hour of engine time. Therefore wear and deterioration should not be the cause. Cummins points out that in salt water, if your engines coolant flow is low and you raw water temperature exceeds 130 degrees you will get the salt in the salt water transfer into solids and build up on the riser spray head clogging it. Cummins points out that this is a maintenance item. The exhaust tube failures most likely cause is that the exhaust gas did not get completely cooled and there were voids in the spray pattern of the exhaust riser. The cause could be inadequate water flow through the engine to the exhaust riser due to anything from clogged engine water scoops to clogged sea strainers, blocked heat exchanger, to poor impellers, a broken piece of the impeller blocking flow inside of the engine, to kinked tubes and piping. It is suspected that the problem is exhaust risers spray pattern in combination with the swirl of the exhaust gas, in combination with the geometry of the inside of the tube and its elbows produces could have caused a void in the spray pattern. The cause of the failure could be a combination of many of these factors leading to an inadequate spray pattern. Changing the components after the riser to 350 degree components will only mask the problem, it should be cured. This is not to say the upgrading to 350 degree fiberglass exhaust tubes and 350 degree silicon elbows is a bad thing, it just would not have shown the base problem to the owners as quickly. 350 degree components will not harm the installation. The changing the exhaust tube from the original fiberglass exhaust tubes to metals is NOT an option. A metal exhaust pipe transfers heat too well and can exasperate an acceptable design, into a dangerous design with the use of metal. Robert is in the process of disassembling the risers and replacing them. Maxum is monitoring and supplying guidance to Robert in this. Additional information as it becomes available will be available through either Robert or on the website. It should be noted that running the engines with the engines raw water seacock's closed will send 800+ degree f exhaust gas into the 250 degree f rated exhaust system. The results, well you can imagine as well as I. If you're a second owner, this is an area surveyors ALLWAYS inspect thoroughly, just because it is a common point of failure. 2/2001
FYI, common exhaust materials are high quality 316L Stainless Steel., SMO, Inconel, Monel, Aluminum, Fiberglass / Composite Tubes. High Temperature Rubber, Silicone Hose is used as couplers, elbows and at times as exhaust tubes depending upon the application, 2/2001
Sources:
DeAngelo Marine Exhaust, Ft. Lauderdale, FL 800-952-8555
National Marine Exhaust, Marysville, WA 360-659-2983
Show me Photos and Drawings of 4100 SCA Exhaust Risers
Cummins 330 and 370 owners, Cummins has introduced a new diesel fuel return line for the top of the injectors. It is now flexible between the injectors rather than rigid. If your engine is running, leave well enough alone. And until dealer stock is depleted these may not come to the front of the shelves, but be aware that they are here and available now. 8/00 JC
This is a common failure, I've seen one break on a 370B on our dock and had one break on our 450C coming down the Ten Tom. JC 04/02
Cummins 330B, 370B & 450C owners, If you ever wondered what the insides of your Diesel Fuel Coolers would look like if the fuel flow through them was blocked, here it is. Our 450C's had their return fuel hoses, (4) of them incorrectly connected from the factory. When we switched the flow of the return Diesel fuel we prevented the blocked the return flow of Diesel fuel back to tank. Above is the result, along with Diesel fuel inside the boat. You should be able to see through the cooler from one end to the other. In essence like looking through a paper tower roll. Engine cooling water should be flowing through the center of these and in so cooling the Diesel fuel before returning it to the fuel tank. J Clausen 5/00
4100 SCR with Cummins 370Bs
RAW WATER IMPELLER REPLACEMENT AND COST SAVINGS:
Again, I have the Cummins 370Bs. I just did this drill. I was told that I needed Cummins Impellers. So I ordered them... and got them for dealer cost at like $105 apiece (Suggested Retail price was like $147) - maybe I was being taken for ride here also, but I don't think so, saw the invoice. I thought was high and found out that it is! My raw water pumps are Sherwoods and I could have gotten the same impeller from the Boat supply store for $54. Now, the Sherwood books at the supply store didn't say that that was a replacement impeller for my 370B, but it was an exact match.
Second.... my starboard engine impeller is a real pain to change cause the pump was on the outboard side. So room and leverage were issues. Also, two high pressure fuel or oil lines exasperated my problems as they interfered with the Impeller removing tools handle and prevented me from getting anything else on the impeller to remove it, such as pliers or whatever. So I had to remove the fuel line and finally got the Impeller tool to work. HOWEVER, THE GOOD NEWS IS, the exact impeller is also available from CAT! Only this one has a threaded end on the outboard side, making the Impeller tool obsolete. All I have to do next time is screw in the correct size and thread bolt, and she'll come right out. The CAT impeller (which is made by Sherwood as well, but not available to retail) costs about $85... an additional $30 for the threaded end I guess... Considering the hassle... well worth it, for the Starboard engine anyway. I will say, that the Cummins kit did come with a new rubber O-ring (as thick as rubber band, maybe) for the rear access plate of the pump.... but I'll be damned if it is worth the additional $50 - $100. If anyone cares about this for their 370Bs, just get in touch with me and I'll gladly track down and give you the part numbers for the exact Sherwood impeller either with or without the threaded end. You can reach me at billb30@hotmail.com
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Cummins Water Pump Issues:
How do you identify a bad water pump?
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Ivan asks, what do I think? Is his pump, above, in his 4100 SCB with 330 Cummins Diesels is going TU,
I defer to Depco Pump out of Clearwater Florida. The pump experts!
Good morning. It definitely looks like you have a water seal leak. It also appears that you have a leak around your ports. There are service kits available that include the water seal, though I would recommend having it done by a marine mechanic or by us. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact us.
Regards,
Jim, Depco Pump
What Follows are photos of a failed Sherwood Pump on a 4100 SCB with 450C Cummins Engines:
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Show me Photos of Fuel Coolers, and Engine Zincs Click Here:
You may have heard that Diesels can run without a battery. Yes that's true but, the Cummins Diesels need the fuel solenoid to actuate to supply diesel to the engine, the solenoid will drop out (close) at about 9 volts. 3/00
More: I have had lost performance on both engines from time to time, I and Cummins found that the throttle blocks shown in the center of the photo had come loose on both engines. They were re-tightened and all was ok until they came loose again. We found, actually David found that they were installed with 8/32 screws and 10/24 nuts with nylon locks. Reinstalling them with 10/24 hardware seems to have solved the problem, just a note, 8 out of 8 were done this way. Is it time to check yours? James 8/00
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| Above is a Pre 2001 Throttle Bracket on a 330B- 370B -450C the fuel pump shown is a 1999, Bosch Injector PN# PES06P120A320RS7419 |
Above is a Post 2001 Throttle Bracket with all starboard filters on a 450C |
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| Close up of fuel and water filters on a starboard 480C, note the electronic fuel shut off valve. |
Lift pump bypass hose on a starboard 480C | |
Throttle Bracket replacements on a 1998 Cummins 330 Diesel. On the 330 Cummins diesel, 1998 vintage, a Bosch P7100 in-line fuel injection pump is used. This unit has a bracket with an adjustment screw attached that limits the travel of the fuel stop solenoid. The bracket has experienced numerous failures including one failed bracket on my port engine and a hair line crack on the starboard engine bracket . A Cummins engineer indicated that the brackets are breaking due to torsional vibration. The fuel control is a Bosch product so I called Bosch when I discovered that a newly designed heavy duty bracket Part no. 2421332099--Bosch PES6P was produced and is being installed on all new units. I had to buy the new brackets, $32.00 ea. + S&H. robertcephas@snip.net 11/2000
I, James, also saw the (new) brackets on a 450C at the Ft. Lauderdale Show. It mounted into two (new) holes in the (new) Bosch fuel pump. The old fuel pump has one threaded hole and one plug. I have asked, and asked, if the plug can be drilled and tapped or picked out, or for another answer short of buying another fuel pump. No one can give me an answer as of . 11/2000
Looking to move your outboard filters inboard? Cummins 330B, 370B & 450C owners can have their "outboard" filters moved "inboard". If you've ever had the filter change done for you, then you have found out that you are paying for the extra time and effort it takes just to get to the filters. If you've done it yourself you may have decided, never again. And if the engine is hot, forget it! Moving your outboard filters inboard will cost between $1,800.00 to $2,000.00 this includes labor. If you plan on keeping your boat for a number of years, or plan on "doing it yourself" it's a good deal. 2/00 5/00
Hit the below "Link" to see the inboard Cummins Engine filters
Show me Photos of the filters moved inboard for servicing on a Cummins Engine.
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| Fuel Filter moved inboard on a 450C Starboard Engine |
Coolant Filter moved inboard on a 450C Port Engine |
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Loosing coolant from your Port Engine? Can't seem to find where it's going? We were for just about one year, One and 1/4 Gallons over just about one year. We had numerous mechanics look for it. Until Steve S. showed up and after giving the engine a good once over, and then he looked at our hot water heater. The Port Engine supplies heat for the hot water heater through a heat exchange coil. And you guessed it just like Steve did, it was leaking at the lower fitting, just inside the insulation. You have to stick your head inside the pump room and look for the discoloration on the low side of the barb (1/8" inside the cover). While on board he installed two 1/2" ball valves with 5/8" barb fittings to shut the water heaters heat exchanger just incase. What a relief to find it external to the engine. 1/00
A year later I was loosing coolant slowly again, after a year with no problems. I shut of the heat exchanger valves and topped off the coolant. No more leaks, I again looked at the heat exchanger in the pump room and found a leak, again, this time on the other barb. I and looking for and will install some constant pressures SS clamps on these barbs. The hose is soft and the clamp leaves a small pinch that the water gets through no matter how tight I torque the clamp. And there's not enough barb to double clamp it. Jc 4/02
And just when I thought it was over, My Cummins mechanic tested my pressure caps and found them at 11 PSI and 9 PSI, not the 15 PSI they are meant to be. With the new caps installed I found myself loosing coolant again, this time I had two faulty welds in the coolant tank, one on each side. It never ends. 8/00
Two Years Later. That old Port engine keeps loosing coolant. After a quick but through inspection under the engine I went to the source of my leak before. The hot water heat exchanger, and yep there's a puddle of green under it. I pulled the heat exchanger hoses off and inspected the inside of the hose for tears and re-tightened the connections, the next time I see them, I will pick up some better quality constant torque 5/8" hose clamps and change them all. If there was more barb sticking out I would reverse double clamp them, but there's not. Jc 4/02
Cummins 370B & 450C Owners, the operations and maintenance manual supplied with the boats does a good job covering the engine but is not the specific manual for our engines. Especially if you have a 12 wire connection plug from your engine to your boats harness. To have on board your engines wiring diagram you MUST have the Cummins manual listed below. Cummins Marine in South Carolina says the new operations and maintenance manual for Recreational, High Output Propulsion Units, (that’s us) is available NOW A/O 8/1/99. I have one in my hand as I write this, ask for bulletin 3381834-00 its about 100 pages. Contact your local Cummins Representative to order one for you now.
Cummins Marine:
If you want much MORE information on Cummins Service Manuals go to this Cummins hot link, select the "B" or "C" series from the left hand side and your there @
Walker Airsep Air Cleaners, are used on the Cummins Engines, the air cleaners Must be serviced to allow the engine proper combustion. To do this you will need, the Walker Cleaning and Re-Oiling Kit, (Part# DDF9000) 1 kit will do 4 cleanings. The kit cost about $32.00 and is available from Walker @ 818-895-7788, yes VISA works for this. Its very valuable to go to the Walker Airsep website and read up on the filters, they are @ / just a quick note: the small airsep from the valve cover must be straight up and down to operate properly. One tip if your blowing black smoke, check that the oil return from the bottom of the airsep to the pan is open and oil in flowing back down to the pan. If that hose is plugged or kinked the oil cannot return to the engine pan and will be pulled into the turbo and that will cause the black smoke.
Walker Airsep connection tube. Some are old, some are new, how do you know what you have? robertcephas@snip.net knows. The new, 2001 models have a lip where they connect to the large rubber tube which prevents them from coming off. 11/2000
Hit the below "Link" to see the Walker Airsep Photos
Show me some Photos of Walker Airsep's and Brackets and such, Click Here:
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The small Airsep cocked on an angle is a No, No. The correct way in straight up and down. Cummins ships them on an angle for packing reasons, on initial setup they should have been turned. The large Airsep's filter code on the inside rubber is (K&N) A075A4, this is a part number of K&N filters of Riverside CA. Their Technical Support number is 909-684-9762, or their toll free # is 800-858-3333, they are also @ .
Our Airseps cans were dropping off, it happened 6 times. I made up a bracket to support it out of 1 & 1/2" by 1/4" Al stock and a piece of 3/4" by 1/8" stock. I put them together with two 24" band clamps around the black airsep canister and here is the result.
Exhaust connections on a Cummins 450 Diesel requires a 22" diameter hose clamp.
Hit the below "Link" to see the Cummins and Westerbeke Engine Prelubers
Show me Photos of Pre Lubers installed on the Cummins Diesels and Westerbeke Gen Set. Pre Lubers
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Pre lubers (black) are located on the stringers to the right and left of the red Racor fuel filters, their electronic controls are located above the red Racor fuel filters |
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Vacuum Gauges are mounted on the Racor Diesel filter heads.
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Pre lubers are on both sides of the filters, their electronic timers are just above the filters, 2 sets of quick connects for pumping out the engine oil are shown on the stringer. I also have Racor vacuum gauges mounted on the Racor filter heads. It took some planning and a few trips to the store to get "just the right parts" I also have a vacuum gauge on the diesel generator mounted on the filters head. Over 80% of actual problems in a diesel are fuel related. 3/3/2001 James
Engine Tachometers: Cummins Diesels are equipped with "magnetic pickup" type tachometer. These tachometers require adjustment as part of your boats pre-delivery inspection. Two adjustments are required: Course Adjustment Switch Setting: Using a fine blade screwdriver, set the course adjustment switch to the appropriate setting for the engine operation option. "B" series engines position #3, "C" service engines position #2.
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Cummins 370B owners repairs their own ECM module:
Subject: Re: Cummins 370 preheat lamp flashes during operation
Well, The magnetic switches, "solenoids", that went bad burned out my Cummins ECM.
I looked for a new one, $800!! Ouch!! Found used one for $450. Still too pricey... I
cracked the thing open to find a circuit board encased in jelly. I scraped it
clean, tested all the diodes, capacitors, mosfets, etc. Everything checked
out okay. I traced the voltage through the different circuits and found my
problem. A short in the board caused by a overcurrent in the ECM when the heater switch melted down.
I soldered in a jumper wire to replace the Burnt out trace, then refilled case with clear silicon caulking and
we're good to go. If you experience a bad ECM, save yourself some money and
try to fix it first. There are only a very few things that can go wrong with them.
I studied and mapped this unit and can probably help. Just E-mail me... You
can also bring it to a local electronics guy and have them fix it. There is
maybe 20 dollars worth of electrical parts in this thing. 800 bucks??
Jim, I was under the impression that you wrote the above subject.
(Ron, you beat me to it, you are definitely the leader in ECM module repairs,
I did an overview of how the ECM operates on the 300B, 330B, 370B, and 450C Cummins Diesel,
that controls the heater solenoids that failed on your boat, (I've included it below) Jim Clausen)
Ron Radford cem1inc@verizon.net
Engine Starting & Battery Charging: Either of your two engine alternators will recharge your Port Starting Battery and your combination Starboard Starting Battery / House Battery through the battery isolator, and if you have the inverter option, they will also recharge the inverter battery. Since either alternator can supply power, how do you know if they are both working? Here how you can test each alternator at start up. When starting your engines, alternate which one you start first. You can rely on remembering what you did last or you might want to think of Port as #1 and Starboard as #2 and use the day of the week to select starting sequence for you. Now start the even numbered engine first or the odd numbered engine first depending on weather the ending number of the week is odd or even. Sail Boaters and Cruisers do this a lot. Turn the key to the run position. Wait approximately 20 seconds or until the indicator light goes out. Start one of your engines. What ever selection method you choose within 15 up to seconds for the engines oil pressure come up to normal and verify that water is exiting the exhausts. And finally after at least 30 seconds of running the engine you can advance the throttle to 1200 rpm or so. This is due to some of our newer engines having "speed sensitive alternators" such as the (Delco 21-SI), they do not start producing power until approximately 1200 rpm. But do not fear, once activated the engine can be brought back down to idle speed and it will still charge. When the engine is brought to 1200 rpm you should see the voltmeter "kick in", come up to the normal position. Which of course you have previously marked with a white arrow made from your ever handy white electrical tape. With this done you can bring your throttle back down and normally start the second engine following the same procedure.
On Cummins Diesels this is also a good time to verify that the heater grids are working. Note: The Cummins B & C Operation and Maintenance Manual #33381834-00 the Operating Instructions on page 1-4 states: "On B Series engines, operation below 450 Rpm's or above 950 Rpm will cause the heater to shut off. The heater will automatically cycle on and off for approximately 20 minutes as long as the engine is operating with in the Rpm range stated above. The Air Heater will operate properly on the C Series engines between 350 - 1200 Rpm's heater operations will be noticeable with the voltmeter: When the heater is activated, it will draw voltage and the voltmeter will drop. Other factors that will affect the heaters operation are low voltage and air intake temperature. If the system voltage drops below 10 volts the air intake heater will not work. Once the engine warms up, when the air intake reaches approximately 95 degrees or higher this will cause the heater to shut off."
On our Maxum's you will see the helm's voltmeter go down a volt or two a few, two or so seconds and then come back up again. You can verify that it's the air heater grid by advancing the throttles to 1400 Rpm, the voltmeter should remain high and steady there. This voltage pulsing will happen until the thermistor in the engine comes up to temperature or you increase the throttles over 1200 Rpm. 3/00
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Trimpot adjustment: Start the engine and after the appropriate warm up period and with the engine in neutral, increase speed to your normally rated WOT RPM, using a "shop tach" or "strobe tach" to measure the engine speed.
250 HP "4B" series engines, 3000 RPM
270 HP "B" series engines, 2600 RPM
300 HP "B" series engines, ----- RPM anyone with this please E-mail me.
330 HP "B" series engines, 2800 RPM
370 HP "B" series engines, 3000 RPM
450 HP "C" series engines, 2600 RPM
480 HP "C-E" series engines, 2600 RPM
Once the correct RPM is obtained, adjust the trim pot for the exact true RPM. This is accomplished by removing the stop plug, or tape covering located on the back center bottom of the tachometer. Insert a 2.0 mm (5/64) hex head plastic electronic tuning tool (obtainable at radio shack) or allen wrench through the access hole and into the fine adjustment trimpot, rotate as necessary. One trick the Cummins tech showed me on the 450C's was that if the engines were running properly they would go up to 3000 rpm no load. It's a quick test of the fuel system and the engines themselves. As always warm them up first and increase speed slowly.
Electronic tachometers work by counting pulses generated by the ignition system, alternator, tach signal
generator, or magnetic pickup sender. The tach is hooked up to +12VDC, Ground, and one of the signal sources
listed above. By selecting the right tach and setting the switch on the back to the correct position, you let the
tachometer know how many pulses are sent per each engine revolution. From this information, the tach displays
the correct engine speed. See Appendix I for tachometer dimensions. Instrument part numbers are located on a
label attached to the outside of the case (i.e. TC0000A).
Application
4 cycle engines: The tach signal terminal is connected to the negative terminal on the ignition coil or to a
transistorized tach driver circuit connected to the ignition system. This circuit will have a wire (usually gray) for
connection to the tach. The correct tachometer will have a white label on the side indicating which switch
position is for each engine type. This label will include 4, 6, and 8 cylinder engines for positions 1, 2, and 3.
2 cycle engines: The tach signal terminal is usually connected to the unrectified AC output of the
alternator/lighting coil. Sometimes it is hooked directly to the stator output wire (usually yellow) other times a
gray tach output lead is provided. The correct tach for this application will have a white label on the side with
switch positions for 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, or 20 pole alternators. The number of poles on the alternator can be
determined by checking the Faria® Outboard Tachometer Application table. (See Appendix II)
Diesel engines: The tachometer signal terminal is hooked up to 1 of 3 things: a) the alternator, b) a tach
signal generator that is spun by the mechanical take-off, or c) a magnetic pickup sensor which counts gear teeth.
a) The alternator tach, which is also called a variable ratio tach, is hooked up to the AC output terminal on
the alternator. This terminal can be marked in a variety of different ways: AC, AUX., S, R, TACH, or
nothing at all. Once installed, the tach is then calibrated to that specific engine by using a shop tach or a
known “no load” governor speed. The white label on this tach gives the formula: [Crankshaft pulley
dia./alternator pulley dia. x No. of Alt. Poles = N]. “N” is used to determine the correct switch setting.
Another adjustment on the back allows for fine tuning.
b) The Switching Diesel Tach is hooked up to a tach signal generator which is spun by the engines’
mechanical take-off. One of the signal generator’s wires is grounded to the engine and the other is connected
to the tach’s signal terminal. The white label on this tach is marked: W:1, 1:1, 1.5:1, 2:1, which
corresponds to the different mechanical take-off ratios.
c) The Mag Pickup Tach hooks up to a magnetic pickup sensor which counts gear teeth. Here neither of the
wires is grounded to the block. They are both routed up to the tachometer as a twisted pair. One hooks to the
signal terminal and the other to the ground terminal on back of the tach. The switch is set to the approximate
number of teeth that the sensor sees on each engine revolution. Another adjustment on the back allows fine
tuning to the exact number of teeth. The label is marked in ranges generally from 80 to 200 gear teeth.
Calibration
Set up a calibrated “shop tach” or “strobe tach” to monitor the engine’s true RPM. Start the engine and
(after an appropriate warm-up period and with the shift in neutral) increase it’s speed to the boat’s normal
cruising RPM read on the shop tach. Set the coarse adjustment switch to the proper position described on it’s
label. Remove the stop-plug or paper label corner (at the 8-o’clock position on the rear of the case for most) and
insert a 5/16” Allen wrench into the “fine adjustment” trimpot, rotating it CW or CCW as necessary to indicate
the true RPM.
Troubleshooting
Symptom recognition is the first step in effective instrumentation troubleshooting. Tachometers usually
exhibit the following symptoms: a) dead, b) pegged, c) erratic, d) reading high, e) reading low, and f)
sticky. More thorough tests of all tach’s (except magnetic pick-up) can be conducted using the Faria?
Instrumentation Tester.
Symptom:
A. Dead - This is usually caused by: a) No power applied, b) No signal supplied, or c) Tach damaged by
electrical transients caused by disconnecting the battery with the engine running.
1. Check to see if power is applied to tach by switching the instrument power supply switch on and off. As
power is applied, the pointer should jump slightly. If it does not, check to see that the wires are installed on
the correct terminals and that 12 volts are actually applied to the terminals themselves.
2. If tach indicates that power is applied, check for the presence of a signal on the signal terminal. Measure
the signal between the signal and ground terminals. This should read in excess of 2 volts DC.
3. If power and signal are present, then it is possible that the tach has been damaged by electrical transients.
See the enclosed technical bulletin for details.
B. Pegged - This condition occurs on tach’s with internal mechanical pointer stops. It is caused by removing
power from the tach while it is running in excess of mid-scale RPM’s or by the switch on back of the tach being
in between positions. When power is re-applied, the tach pointer attempts to go clockwise to zero but cannot
because the internal stop is in the way. Read “Marine Instrumentation Facts” for details on how to correct this
condition.
C. Erratic - This symptom is caused 99% of the time by an intermittent connection between the wire and the ring
or spade connector. Often the wire’s insulation is pushed into the crimp area and crimped. The center conductor
casually touches the connector allowing the tach to work most of the time but causing a nightmare for the
technician. Electrical noise also can cause erratic readings. See “Reading High” for further information.
D. Reading High - This is usually caused by the switch on the back of the tach being in the wrong position. If
the number of cylinders or alternator poles selected by the switch is too low, the tach will read high. If a variable
alternator or mag pick-up tach is being used, then further calibration may be necessary, as this calibration is done
by the end user. See ‘Calibration’. Excessive electrical noise may also cause the tach to read high. These noise
spikes are counted by the tach as engine RPM’s. The wire affected by the noise can be identified by connecting
one wire at a time to the tachometer directly from the battery or the signal source on the engine.
E. Reading Low - If the number of cylinders or alternator poles selected by the switch is too high, then the tach
will read low. If a variable ratio or mag pick-up tachometer is being used, further calibration by the end user may
be necessary. See ‘Calibration’.
F. Sticky - If the tach appears to “stick” during operation, slightly loosen nuts holding backclamp and check
operation. If tach now operates properly and is not loose in panel, tach now should provide suitable service. If
tach continues to stick during operation -- replace tach.
This is the back of your Tach. Break the seal in the "Green" area and use a plastic 5/64 hex key to adjust.
You can find this tool in Radio Shack, or use a metal hex key with care.
Your Tachometers have a Transferable Limited Lifetime Warranty
During the first 36 months from date of original retail purchase (12 months on PWC, fog resistant gauges, Fuel Managers, Depth Sounders, Commander-Speedo, Commander-Tach, Pilot I and Pilot II), any instruments that fail due to defects in materials or workmanship will be repaired or replaced at Faria Marine Instruments option at no charge. The Warranty is further extended indefinitely beyond the initial warranty period by enclosing the nominal fee as listed below when submitting a warranty claim.
To submit a Warranty Claim, call Faria Customer Service at 1-800-473-2742 weekdays 8:30 am until 5:00 PM Eastern Time. One of our Marine Applications Specialists will review the problem with you in detail. If no solution is found, you will be given an authorization number to return the instrument, postage prepaid and packaged to prevent damage while in transit, along with your name, address, daytime telephone number, sales receipt, and a brief description of the problem, to:
Faria Marine Instruments
WARRANTY SERVICE, P.O. Box 983,
Uncasville, CT 06382-0983.
It will be promptly returned to you postage prepaid (average turnaround, 5 working days).
Instrument styles which are no longer manufactured, may be replaced with a similar instrument of equal or greater value. For Warranty Service beyond the initial 36 month warranty period, be certain to include your check or money order as follows: Tachometer $ 26.00* each
Engine talk:
If someone says he used a #8 fuel supply hose in place of a #6 fuel supply hose he means. He used a 1/2" in place of a 3/8" the fuel supply hose, the number of the hose is always over a 16th of an inch.
The new electronically controlled Cummins 480 HP Diesel Engine will use one half of the electronic control system used on the HUGE Cummins 30 liter V12 engine. Two of these electronic controllers are needed to operate the 30 Liter V12, one electronic controller controls per six cylinders.
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Fuel Solenoid
Here is 450C's Fuel Solenoid. The Fuel Solenoid in the center of the photo and has a black tie wrap around the electrical connection. When you turn on the key the Fuel Solenoid energizes and allows fuel to flow. Turn off the key and the solenoid disengages and the engine stops. Here a bit more information on how the Fuel Solenoid works. It has (2) coils, one is the "make coil", it is used to energize the plunger inside and pull the fuel vale open, this coil takes 30 amps of power. And then there is the "hold down", or "hold in" coil, it only requires 8 amps. 30 amps to make, 8 amps to hold. If the make coil gets hung up, or is supplied with low current it could burn up. In fact it will burn up in about 45 seconds unless the hold down coil get energized. You can usually "see" the burn mark where the coils wires leave the top of the solenoid. But don't despair. If your Fuel Solenoids make coil burns up, you can still usually start and stop your engine. Heres how. Turn on the key, manually lift the fuel Solenoids plunger and the "hold coil" will keep it in place. Key off, it drops out.
T Murray owner of 4600 SCB hull #1 says," I have had several problems with the solenoids on the Cummins Diesels. Both solenoids have required replacement secondary to failure. The starter motors have also failed, twice on the port and once on the starboard diesel". Owners please if you attend any of the larger boat shows, go to the Cummins booth, and any other supplier of your boat’s equipment. Ask them about the systems, they will be happy to explain the operation of their equipment to you, and recommend spares, what better hands on can there be. PS, Cummins went over the Diesels with me at last years Miami boat show and explained that if the fuel solenoid fails, it fails safe, by shutting off the fuel flow. In such an event and if you must operate the engine you can temporarily wire the solenoid open to the fuel on position and shut off the fuel flow to the engine via the fuel valves. You can contact Tim @ tmurray@med.miami.edu
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Are your Diesels Slowing Down?
You may have a restriction in your intercooler:
I was loosing RPM on the top end and was intermittently using more oil in one engine. I was at a loss for what it might be, except for a major bill, it is a boat. I talked to three sources and they all agreed that the intercooler needed to be checked for an obstruction. There are two ways to do this, one a visual inspection, and two (the better way) is to verify by a pressure gauge that there is no more than 3 psi difference between the intake and outlet of the intercooler. Mine were obviously clogged, and starving the engine for air when operating over 2200 rpm. So much so that they were sucking oil down the valve stems. That were the excessive oil use came from. A quick check is to make sure the engine can do it rated no load rpm, for the 450C that 3000 rpm when warm, in neutral. Mine could not before cleaning. Heres a photo of the inlet intake pipe of the intercooler to show what the clogged internal fins looks like. Jim Clausen
And now a Link to our newest page..
Cummins Diesel Aftercoolers.
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Injector Change Out report on 450C's
Like many of you we changed out the injectors on our 450C this year to the new 5 hole injector offered by Cummins. This is the injector that Cummins uses on the 480C. The change was well worth it, for 2400 miles we never had to clean the stern of soot. Wow! The new 5 hole injector is # 4025299 and was developed to help steady state black smoke.. About $110 ea street pricing...The old 4 hole injector was # 3802851 at about $100 ea. It is best to have them all set all exactly equal to about 290 BAR. This one things helps the white smoke/fuel sheen issue more than anything else. Even w/ NEW injectors. For the guys who cruise at less than 18 LBS of boost and are propped easy, install the 180 thermostats to help low speed smoke/fuel sheen.
White smoke w/ both the B and the C's Some engines have white smoke issues more than others and coolant heaters are the best solution overall for cold start-ups, besides offering many other advantages.
Updated injectors for 450C
Subject: We installed the 5 hole injectors on MV Summer School
We installed the 5 hole injectors this Summer and went cruising for 2400 miles for 7 weeks on the Great Lakes. There is no increased power, and since we have somewhere around 900 hours we are well broken in, so have no smoke to speak of on start up. What did change was there is no soot at all on the transom. None after 2400 miles. Zero. Any questions please, feel free to ask. Jim Clausen, billegates@aol.com
Injector Change Out report on 330B and 370B engines.
Since I gave out the information on the C series injector change, I have been asked if there is a B series change out that would give similar results. So I asked the Wavemaster this.
On the 450C series engines there is a "upgrade to the injectors" offered for engines with problems of excessive black soot. The upgrade is to change out the original 4 hole injector with the 5 hole injector used in the 480C. You supply the injector the owner picks up the labor.
My questions are:
Is there a similar program for owners of 330B and 370B engines.
Are the new 380B injectors compatible with the 370B?
Are the 380B injectors 5 hole?
Capt. James Clausen,
Thank you for contacting Cummins Marine/Cummins MerCruiser Diesel Wave
Master.
Your first statement is not correct. There is no program for changing out
injectors for any engine model. Each repair requiring an injector change
is done by individual determination.
The 380 engine is a QSB model. Quantum engines have a different fuel
system with electronically controlled injectors, and a common fuel rail.
These injectors are not compatible with the mechanical engines.
Your Cummins Dealer and Distributor are best prepared to advise you on
issues regarding recommended power, projected performance, options,
installation requirements, parts, service and pricing.
If you need assistance in locating a Cummins Distributor or Dealer call us
toll free at 1-800-DIESELS (343-7357) or use the following link, and choose
the appropriate region.
Mercruiser
Mercruiser 400HP engines, Your newsletter I received on Maxum boats has been very helpful. "I have a 4100 SCR and I have been experiencing a surging of both engines after I go out cruising and bring the throttles down to idle. I have 502's Bluewater 400 hp gas engines and the wrong sensors were installed at the factory. They installed sensor's for 454 engines." Once the problem was found and corrected normal operation resumed. jbandza@twne.com
More Mercruiser 400HP engines, 4100 SCA "The 502's (400 HP) most all have a recall for the sensor, surging when idling down and even quitting. Contact Mercruiser about the SN of the engine to determine if it is part of the recall. A handy idea for adding oil when you are under way in rough seas and can't shut down but one engine. It works other times too, thoroughly clean the pump and lines from a weed killer or other similar bottle and install it in a gallon of the correct viscosity oil. Counting the strokes, pump a pint (1/2 of a quart) into a clean measuring cup. Note the number of strokes on the bottle or better, a permanent label on the pump since you'll transfer that from oil container to oil container. This will work for transmission fluid too. Does anyone have a similar boat / engine / transmission / prop configuration that we do - 4100 SCA, 400 HP 502's, Borg-Warner transmission, 23X24 prop? Mercruiser's engine manual states that WOT should be 4,800 with cruising at 4,200. Our WOT is 4,200. Is anyone having or has had a similar experience and if so, what did you do to improve performance? We're also looking for burn rate and fuel consumption of a similarly configured boat. Too, is anyone with the 502's using a lot of oil? We went through a total of 3 gallons in 75 hours, 625 statute miles. I hope some of this is helpful". 9/99 biff@infinet.com or biff@13-inc.com
More from Biff, "We're also re-propping (our 4100 SCR) in an effort to get the engines up to operating range. We can't get above 4200 WOT when the Mercruiser manual says WOT on the 8.2L (502cid, 400 HP) is 4900 with cruise @ 4400-4800. We are also going back to Maxum on this as well. I'm going to develop some performance specs before and after that I'll pass on to you at the end of the season. If any else has experienced this I would like to know, Many Thanks. 5/00 biff@infinet.com or biff@13-inc.comThere is more on this from biff in the props section below. 8/00
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Water in your cylinders?
Rusty Pistons and Valves?
Look here, and E-mail Bryce for more information.
http://www.maxumowners.org/MonthlyJAN03de.html
I also had an excellent article that was written about how "sympathetic vibrations" cause water to "walk up" the exhaust pipe into the engine and then down the valves. It had cutaways of a half a dozen mercury manifolds. It seems that Mercury forgot to design a "syphon break" into their new exhaust manifolds and this oversite has been causing all kinds of problems.
Jim Clausen
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C. DEQUELIJOE the owner of a 3700 SCR says, "This is our second Maxum in as many years’, our first was a 3000 SCR and it was also our first boat. We fell in love with boating and, unfortunately, found there is truth in (they shrink when you put them in water.) In any case, we sold the 3000 and moved up to the 3700. Our problems with the 3700 started the week after delivery and found most of them to be dealer-prep (or the lack of it). After the Coast Guard and Vessel Assist had to rescue us off the Palos Verdes coastline with two feet of water and more coming in (misaligned shaft on the port engine -missing & sheared off shaft bolts - missing and un-tightened motor mount bolts - missing bell housing bolts) we finally had to get Maxum involved directly and they were GREAT. It took a haul out and about two weeks of visits from Mercruiser, Maxum and the dealer's service department but we finally got most of the problems' handled. We're happy and have a healthy boat now, but still disgusted with the dealer. The strangest part is, I've been to every boat show in Southern California and still haven't seen another brand that offers the kind of value for the dollar that Maxum does."
Please understand that you are not alone, over half of the problems we found on our 4600 SCB were caused while prepping and delivering the boat, correcting minor problems which the service department turned into major catastrophe's. Maxum is working on this and has been considering in the water deliveries in Salisbury, MD. They have also gone out of their way to be helpful in solving customer problems, a great way to build and maintain an excellent reputation. After reading this it might be a good time to go below and check your engine mounts, put your back into the wrench these are big nuts and they need to be TIGHT, you should do this every 100 hours or yearly, and do a general look see and tug check. 8/99 & 4/00
Volvo:
Volvo Penta of the Americas, Inc.
Volvo has manuals Available that you the owner should have. Before you call you should have your Volvo engine Serial numbers in front of you. They will most likely ask for them.
1.- Instruction book, for TAMD74P EDC (this is the owners manual) Volvo Penta part # 7740156
As I understand it you get this book with the engines so there should have been two on board your boat.
2.- Installation book, Marine Propulsion Diesel Engines, 63-163 Series, Volvo Penta part # 7740996
As I understand it you do not get this book with the engines. I have this book, I like this book. As a matter of fact , I 've said "nice book" at least three time, and that happens very rarely. If I owned these engines I would push to own this book.
3.- Sales Guide, Marine Propulsion Diesel Engines, 63-163 Series (year) Volvo Penta part # 7740141. You sure don't get this book, this is to spec out a Volvo Penta Marine Diesel for purchase, it goes over engine sizes, options, layout, and installation considerations. But, what you do want that is also included in this book is the specification sheet for your Diesel. But you don't need this book to get it, it's on the internet on the Volvo site, it is in PFD format so you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader to open, view and print it. Head for the "Marine Leisure Area" open the Products", then open the "Diesel Inboard Selection" to view the product range. Select your model engine and now you have The Power Curve, Torque Curve and Fuel consumption. Volvo keeps this site updated, the book will grew old and out of date in time.
4.- Volvo Penta, Diesel Service Dealers. Non of the above book have this list. I've look in the Volvo website and I can't find it. But, you can get a copy by calling, (757) 436-2800 Customer Relations, Ex# 5100, Its best to do this before you leave the dock.
5.- I asked if there were "Workshop Manuals" for the TAMD74P EDC. The answer is not at this time. I was however sent two Workshop Manuals for the TAMD73. The first was technical data, 26 pages, the second was for the intake, exhaust and cooling system, 39 pages. I suspect they would be similar in content for the TAMD74, should that be the case, you as an owner don't want them. I asked if there are parts manuals showing part numbers for the TAMD74P EDC I was told they are not available to the owner. I asked if there was anything else in print for the TAMD74P EDC owner. I was told, not at this time. More information to follow. JC 5/2001
Westerbeke:
NOTE Pre 2001 Boat Owners:
There is a New Westerbeke Corporate address and phone #'s, A/O 2001
You might want to correct the contact information on your manuals they have all changed!!!
Westerbeke Corporation, Engines and Generators,
Westerbeke: SE Regional Rep, R.B. GROVE, Florida, 305-854-5420
Got a problem, here's how it works. Go to your Dealer, go to Maxum go to the local Westerbeke service shop. If going to your local Westerbeke shop doesn't work, call your local Westerbeke Regional Distributors, still need help call Westerbeke Corporate.
Westerbeke Impeller Service:
Hi Jim,
Today I replaced the impeller for my 8KW Westerbeke generator and decided to take some pics for your web site.
Many of you don’t put a lot of hours on your generators, with our 2 to 4 week stays on the Catalina Island mooring we found that the impeller on the generator needs to be replaced more often.
So here we go…
First Close the thru hull to stop water from coming in, then remove the sound shield
This is what the 8kw generator looks like without the shield
This is the impeller kit.
I our 4100SCB the impeller is on the Starboard front corner of the generator.
You need a 7mm rachet to get the 6 screws, The smaller the better, a short flat head screw driver will also work
Placing the tool is a little tricky; you lean on the generator and reach from the fore side.
After you remove the cap you can pry the impeller out with a screw driver, if its broken you will need
To search for the pieces (if you leave them they, will plug up your cooling system)
The most likely location is the fore side of the heat exchanger; I found one piece in the same area where the impeller was and the other four in this side of the heat exchanger.
It’s important to check the tubes to make sure they are not plugged.
The cover is a single bolt
On the other side of the heat exchanger you can do the same to inspect, and make sure you replace the pencil Zinc.
Remember to open the thru hull valve to let the water into the cooling system.
Test run the generator before you close the sound shield, look for any leaks, and check the water coming out the exhaust. If all is ok you can close the sound shield.
That’s it!
Ivan ivanhb@charter.net
NEW Manual available for 12.5 kW Diesel Gen Sets!
Originally Westerbeke sent out manuals that were close, but exactly correct for our 12.5 kW Diesel Generators.
The manual they sent out, at least for the 12.5 kW Diesel, was part # 32139.
The proper manual for the 12.5 kW Diesel Generator is # 036776, available for your local Westerbeke Dealer.
(8.0 kW Diesels still use manual part # 036776 as originally included with the Gen Set).
Westerbeke Gen Set Impeller Cross Ref:
Impeller Cross Reference Data.
Westerbeke 12.5 kW, 4 cylinder Diesel Generator (12.5 BTDA -60 HZ)
Westerbeke 8 kW, 3 cylinder Diesel Generator (8 BTD -60 HZ)
Westerbeke Impeller # 344407
2" OD, 7/8" thick, 1/2" pin drive, 6 blade
Westerbeke Impeller Kit # 034440
Westerbeke Pump # 33636
Globe Impeller #6541
Sherwood Impeller #not available
(Sherwood only manufactures impellers for their own pumps)
Jabsco Impeller #18653-0001 and others
Johnson Pump Impeller # 09-810B
(Johnson Pump is the OEM to Westerbeke on this)
Westerbeke 508-823-7677
"order parts through the local Westerbeke distributor"
Jabsco -
Jabsco 800-446-1656
Globe -
Globe 781-871-3700
Sherwood -
Sherwood 800-471-0460
Johnson Pump -
Johnson Pump of America 847-671-7867
According to our data, the Fram oil filter PH2921 is equivalent to
the Westerbeke part number 35828, used on the 12.5 kW Diesels.
Westerbeke Diesel Generators, 12.5 kW shown below with sound shield removed.
Westerbeke Diesel Generators as installed on the Maxum's do not have engine hour meters on either the generator panel or the engine themselves. Either you need to have one installed or do maintenance annually irregardless of operating hours. We looked and found this space behind the power panel, we had a bracket made up and took the hour meters power feed from the Generators Voltmeter. 5/00
The switch is to transfer power in the Port receptacles from Inverter to line power.
Bob Cephe's 4100 SCA Power Panel with a Boat US Item #279117 hour meter
Show me Photos of Pre Lubers installed on the Cummins Diesels and Westerbeke Gen Set. Pre Lubers
The Vacuum Gauge above is mounted on the
Westerbeke Diesels external Racor R12P filter head, filter # is written on the bulkhead.
In a message dated 9/4/05 10:05:47 PM, orrkids@bellsouth.net writes:
Jim,
After a long run down the Intercoastal today and while slowing when approaching my marina, I was unable to shift my port engine/transmission out of forward gear. No strange noises or anything else. It did respond to direct manual shifting at the transmission. We did notice a moderate amount of oil or hydraulic fliud near where the control cable connected into the transmission shift control.
We were hot, tired and just worn out by the time we got the boat into the slip so we didn't do a lot of diagnostics today. Any ideas on what we ought to be looking at tomorrow?
Best Regards, Cameron Orr, Maxum 4600 SCB
Reply:
You have Hynautic Hydraulic Engine Controls -04 series.
This system does not use oil, it uses 50/50 Antifreeze and distilled water.
It sounds like you have a leak, most likely where the hose enters the fitting.
You can usually cut the hose back with a razor blade and remake the fitting.
Check the reservoir pressure gauge, the book says 100 lbs, we leave ours at 70 and its works fine.
The Hynautic website is linked below.
Feel free to call if you need more information.
Regards, Capt. James Clausen, MV Summer School
Throttles: I have Mathers Micro Commander electronic controls, in my 4100 SCA, but no manual. I asked Maxum for a manual, they assured me that the boat was not equipped with these controls and the dealer must have done it. The dealer says that was the way they received the boat from the factory!!!!!!!! Anyone looking for a manual can down load everything from www.mathers.com <http://www.mathers.com> . 9/00 Note Micro Commanders are now Standard on the Maxum 4600 SCB Hardtop (YZ) 2001 Special Edition.
Mathers controls & electronic sync boards
In a message dated 05/28/2002 3:11:34 PM, kklunder@yahoo.com writes:
I just found the web site and enjoyed reading many of the articles. I did not find anything on the 4200 SCR and was wondering if you herd anything about the syncs on the engines? I noticed that the 4600 and the 4200 ads mention syncs but they don't seem to exist (not sure about 4600). When asked, the dealer hides behind legal "subject to change" wording at bottom. I wasn't sure if they are talking about a sync gauge or actual engine synchronizers.
I did discover on the 4200 that the Mathers controls actually have the electronic sync boards installed but not wired (a large waste of money on Maxum's part). I was able to wire these to the mag pick up using the pair for the tach (not the heater circuit) and they
work great. I also hooked up the wire for the green LED at the shifter that was already provided. I did find however that the boards were reversed from the recommended install provided by Mathers (lead on port, follow on starboard). Any questions I had were answered by a Mathers rep who's office was located in ZF Marines FT Lauderdale headquarters. He couldn't answer why Maxum didn't wire the units but thought that he might need to offer them more training since they are buying the expensive boards.
Thanks, Kurt Klunder
The wiring guide is in the Mathers Manual in Appendix "C" Page 5. Two engines with Sync.
We hope to have the diagram on the website soon. Used in the 4600 SCB Hardtop (YZ) 2001 Special Edition and the 4200 SCR. James 8/02
Mathers Electronic Controls
ZF Mathers, LLC, USA, with approx. 60 employees, was founded in Oct. 2000 when the ZF Marine Group acquired Mathers Controls. This company has pioneered the development of marine controls systems for the past 50 years, and now offers a wide range of state-of-the-art electronic systems for all types of craft. The company also supplies pneumatic control systems.
ZF Mathers, LLC
1415 Pacific Drive,
Burlington, WA 98233 USA
Tel: +1 800 546-5455 +1 360 757-6265
E-mail: info.zfmathers@zf.com
I have copies of the Mathers Owners Manuals and Engine Sync Manuals. I will forward them to anyone who requests them. They are on PFD format. Jim Clausen
Throttle Linkage: I found on our recent trip that the throttles didn't line up any longer and felt spongy. I contacted our Service Manager and found that if you take the clutches/shifters and throttles lock to lock five times prior to starting your engines, it will synchronize them and they work as they should. 3/00 LJoseph181@aol.com
Throttle Linkage Connector Failures. "JAMES. FOUR DAYS IN CAT CAY, DO NOT, DO NOT SUGGEST THIS TO ANYONE. FOR YOUR FILE. ON THE WAY BACK ABOUT 2 MINUTES OUT OF GUN CAY STARBOARD MOTOR WOULD NOT RESPOND. I AM NOT A MECHANIC SO MY WIFE (MBW) SAID DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING, WE WERE ON ONE ENGINE, SO WE THOUGHT, AND WERE GOING AT 15 MPH AND WERE EXPECTED TO FOLLOW OTHERS AT 22 MPH. SO YOU KNOW WE CREPT ALONG FOR 4 HOURS INSTEAD OF 2 AND A HALF. SEEMS SOME ATTACHMENT THAT CONTROLS THE SPEED FELL OFF AND KEPT THE ENGINES GOING AT 1800 WHILE I HAD MORE CONTROL OF THE PORT AT 2200. I SHOULD KNOW MORE AND NOT BE AFRAID, BUT IN THE START OF THE GULF STREAM WE WERE JUST HAPPY TO BE MAKING SOME SLOW PROGRESS.
GOOD BOATING CLAUDE" (Claude has a 4100 SCR, I was fortunate to meet him in Miami)
I suspect what Claude had was the same thing that happened to me this Summer at about 450 hours of operation. Mine happened to also be the Starboard Engine. The control cable for the Throttle and Shift have adjustable (Brass?) ends which capture a ball on this receiver. This end piece, because of the angle of the throttle cables attachment wore out and fell off of the ball. Luckily it happened when Patti was at the helm so I could blame it on her. Only fooling. I happened to have a spare pair, I was warned that there might be a problem here and ordered the new and improved throttle brackets from Cummins along with a new pair of receivers. The problem is I could not install them. The new throttle cable holder attaches to the boshe fuel pump. The old boshe fuel pump does not have the drilled and tapped hole locations for this attachment, so the new brackets are useless. But, I did have the receivers on board and replaced them in 5 minutes and was back up and running licitly split.
Sorry for the poor quality, note the top connector has failed and has rounded out.
Throttle Cable Failures: The original US Marine provided cables are Hynautic with brass adjustable retainer ends and I had my failure after 12 months. The clip on the throttle body that is intended to clamp the throttle cable end is designed for two cables as needed when you have the lower helm. If you have just the bridge helm station as I do you run the risk of the engine mechanic crimping down the second set of dogs onto your primary cable. Both the primary and secondary dogs quickly wear through the brass cutting it in two. Without end retention, the entire cable assembly now moves with the throttle and not the teleflex cable inside, hence you get little or no movement of the governor lever. In my case, the starboard engine hung up at 1850 rpm and it was treat to navigate on one engine into a crowed marina under windy conditions. The cure ---- replace the brass hynautic cable with Morse 33-C Supreme 6" cables which use stainless steel ends, about $87.50 a piece. This reply is from Ed White esjwhite@uswest.net
The throttle cables failed on both my Cummins 370 "B" series engines on several occasions in 1997 and 1998. MAXUM took the entire boat back to Valdosta, GA (where it was built) for numerous repairs. During that time they replaced the throttle cable "ends" at the engine and that part of the problem went away. I still had problems with the Cummins throttle arm coming loose. I found that there was a washer between the open ends of the clamp. This prevented tightening the clamp onto the shaft. I removed the washer and that fixed the problem. Doug Kendrick Raleigh, NC DKendric@aol.com
Throttle Linkage: I found on our recent trip that the throttles didn't line up any longer and felt spongy. I contacted our Service Manager and found that if you take the clutches/shifters and throttles lock to lock five times prior to starting your engines, it will synchronize them and they work as they should. 3/00 LJoseph181@aol.com
Can't get full RPM? This is also the case if you can't get full rpm, just move the throttles from stop to stop three times, and if your lucky this will fix the problem and save a service call. JA 2/2001
One 4100 SCR owner had a sticking throttle cable. When investigating why, he found the throttle cable was used as a wire chase and had the boats wiring tie wrapped to it. When the electrical cabling was removed from it both throttles worked just fine. 9/00 From another owner, Also the threaded rod end of the throttle cable on the port engine came right out of the female end. Engine went to idle. Check and tighten connections on both engines. The port engine throttle is on the outboard side and is therefore more of a feel than see situation. The pin is locked into the throttle lever by a retainer that slides back and is spring loaded." By the way, these are Cummins 450C engines. B Grey 7/99
For information on you boats electrical charging system "Click Here"
C. DEQUELIJOE the owner of a 3700 SCR says, "This is our second Maxum in as many years’, our first was a 3000 SCR and it was also our first boat. We fell in love with boating and, unfortunately, found there is truth in (they shrink when you put them in water.) In any case, we sold the 3000 and moved up to the 3700. Our problems with the 3700 started the week after delivery and found most of them to be dealer-prep (or the lack of it). After the Coast Guard and Vessel Assist had to rescue us off the Palos Verdes coastline with two feet of water and more coming in (misaligned shaft on the port engine -missing & sheared off shaft bolts - missing and un-tightened motor mount bolts - missing bell housing bolts) we finally had to get Maxum involved directly and they were GREAT. It took a haul out and about two weeks of visits from Mercruiser, Maxum and the dealer's service department but we finally got most of the problems' handled. We're happy and have a healthy boat now, but still disgusted with the dealer. The strangest part is, I've been to every boat show in Southern California and still haven't seen another brand that offers the kind of value for the dollar that Maxum does."
Please understand that you are not alone, over half of the problems we found on our 4600 SCB were caused while prepping and delivering the boat, correcting minor problems which the service department turned into major catastrophes. Maxum is working on this and has been considering in the water deliveries in Salisbury, MD. They have also gone out of their way to be helpful in solving customer problems, a great way to build and maintain an excellent reputation. After reading this it might be a good time to go below and check your engine mounts, put your back into the wrench these are big nuts and they need to be TIGHT, you should do this every 100 hours or yearly, and do a general look see and tug check. 8/99 & 4/00
Bilge Boards, keep your feet off the bilge and your bilge off of your carpets. You can store your portable vacuums under the removable step, which of course holds down the removable board over your transducers. The step is held down with two shock cords with clip ends. This makes that first step acceptable, otherwise I make my fathers groaning noise, which is not pretty.
Oil Holder, it's in the engine room of a 4600 SCB so I include it here. It's a West Marine, "Milk Crate" sitting on two 2x6 treated boards, it has a cut out in the back right to allow the sea cock to swing closed. A handy and secure place to store oil, engine muffs, etc.
Engine talk:
If someone says he used a #8 fuel supply hose in place of a #6 fuel supply hose he means. He used a 1/2" in place of a 3/8" the fuel supply hose, the number of the hose is always over a 16th of an inch.
To receive information from the Maxum Sports Yacht Owners Group
send your name, hull #, and tip, if you have one to James, @BilleGates@aol.com